The Joe Zone. Part 2

So I log in, and get an immediate chat invite. Inside are Lyris Nairn (the victim of the ecm/neut blackbird) Trok Mienal (who kicked most folks out of the corp) And of course Joe Phoenix.

Welcome to the Joe Zone...Part 2...Warning, this is all sorts of long, and gets kind of weird.

Lyris Nairn > Gentlemen
Joe Phoenix > fuck off
Zedrik Cayne > Lady, Gentlemen..And Joe.
Lyris Nairn > I have a proposal which should fix things for Imperial Crusade
Joe Phoenix > im not talking to that scum
Lyris Nairn > You don't talk.  You listen.
Lyris Nairn > Imperial Commonwealth*
Lyris Nairn > Joe has decided to try things my way.  I want to know if you two think this will fix things.
Joe Phoenix > if you want to tell me somthing, tell me yourself
Lyris Nairn > 1.  Joe stops posting on the forums.
Lyris Nairn > 2.  Joe stops posting shit in local.
Lyris Nairn > 3.  Joe lies low for a couple weeks, and then resumes recruiting.
Joe Phoenix > "shit"?
Lyris Nairn > What do you think, gentlemen?
Trok Mienal > Lyris,
Zedrik Cayne > Sounds promising so far. But there's an important piece missing.
Trok Mienal > To be honest if Joe was capable of running a corp, he would not have gotten intot his mess in the first place
Zedrik Cayne > /emote ding ding dings.
Joe Phoenix > fuck off trok
Trok Mienal > There for i think doing anything to let him run a corp again
Trok Mienal > is a bad idea
Joe Phoenix > your a coward
Trok Mienal > anyways
Lyris Nairn > Well, there's a very simple problem here Trok
Joe Phoenix > trok you have no right to tell me anything like that
Trok Mienal > ill be back in 35-45mins
Zedrik Cayne > Joe hands the keys over to Trok...and I'll retract the wars immediately as long as Joe sticks to staying shut in locals.
Lyris Nairn > Joe wants to run a corp.  We can't do anything to stop him.  No one can.
Trok Mienal > Thats a good plan Zedrik
Trok Mienal > I have a clear set of goals for a corp
Trok Mienal > many joe just tossed aside
Joe Phoenix > AHHAA
Trok Mienal > Anyways let me know when you decide when i get back
Trok Mienal > see you all in 35-45mins
Joe Phoenix > you think im going to hand my men over to trok!
Lyris Nairn > You don't have any men, Joe.
Joe Phoenix > the man is scum
Lyris Nairn > You have alt spies.
Lyris Nairn > A bunch of inactive alt spies.
Joe Phoenix > he back stabs... lies.. tricks... and worms his way into anything
Zedrik Cayne > Joe. I'd log in my alt that was in your corp..but Trok got rid of it.
Lyris Nairn > Joe, I want you to understand something.
Joe Phoenix > WE ARE THE COMMONWEALTH, WE DO NOT SURRENDER, WE DO NOT FALL
Zedrik Cayne > Now, are you a reasonable man?
Joe Phoenix > thats my answer
Lyris Nairn > Joe.
Lyris Nairn > YOU are not the commonwealth.
Lyris Nairn > YOU are Joe Phoenix.
Lyris Nairn > YOU are a loudmouth.
Lyris Nairn > THE COMMONWEALTH is all of those poor newbies you were taxing
Joe Phoenix > i am defensive
Zedrik Cayne > Joe, you've failed in so many ways. Personally, its not funny any more. Its just sad.
Lyris Nairn > and who got kicked out of the corp by trok
Joe Phoenix > i have failed in no way
Zedrik Cayne > You have a gift for recruiting.
Lyris Nairn > Now look, Lyris is a happy panda who wants all space pandas to be happy.
Lyris Nairn > So
Lyris Nairn > Joe, give Zedrik what he wants
Lyris Nairn > Zedrik, give Joe what he wants
Lyris Nairn > then we can all have a carebear stare
Joe Phoenix > infact, iv succeded where thousands have failed
Lyris Nairn > and enjoy some marshmallows
Joe Phoenix > zedrik if you will recall
Lyris Nairn > Joe, let me ask you a very simple question.
Joe Phoenix > lyris!!
Joe Phoenix > trying to finish
Lyris Nairn > Is it possible for you to be wrong?
Joe Phoenix > stop cutting me up
Zedrik Cayne > Stop posting in really short, unpunctuated sentences then Joe.
Joe Phoenix > i have no interest in posting in anything except the FR forum
Zedrik Cayne > Its much more difficult to interrupt and cut someone up when they spit out well formed sentences that take some time to digest.
Zedrik Cayne > But, I think we can be quiet while you finish your thought.
Joe Phoenix > thank you
Joe Phoenix > now as for this.. load mouthing
Joe Phoenix > find me an example, please
Joe Phoenix > my corp is not full of newbies
Joe Phoenix > they all mades informed desigions to come into the corp
Joe Phoenix > they are all enjoying the corp
Joe Phoenix > i am enjoying leading them
Joe Phoenix > we are contempt, and have no plans to hurt anyone, only to help
Joe Phoenix > i have not failed in anything
Lyris Nairn > OK.  Joe, may I speak?
Joe Phoenix > infact, iv done amazingly well considering whats happened
Joe Phoenix > 2 secs
Lyris Nairn > ok
Joe Phoenix > if one of my corp members has a problem, they come to me, we fix the issue, and we work it out
Joe Phoenix > for example
Joe Phoenix > with the war with the SSS
Joe Phoenix > we did have a number of children playing
Joe Phoenix > and the SSS members had a habit of personally attacking these members
Joe Phoenix > i had to comfort a number of children who where extreamly upset my the insults
Joe Phoenix > one was asking me what a "pussy hole" wsa
Joe Phoenix > what am i ment to say to a 10 year old? and then being proclaimed to be a lier, when i have never lied to anyone in eve ever!
Joe Phoenix > that kind of personal insult woulld hurt anyone
Lyris Nairn > Joe,
Joe Phoenix > wait
Zedrik Cayne > No, please Lyris, let him finish his thought.
Joe Phoenix > hell i even had a 7 year old on here being told "your mums a whore", stuff like that
Joe Phoenix > and im ment to be civilized with the people who say these things?
Lyris Nairn > Joe.
Joe Phoenix > zedrik you have a young girl... niomie... i believe
Joe Phoenix > you must understand why i was angry with these people
Lyris Nairn > I understand that your intentions are good, Joe.  You have a decent heart, otherwise I would not be here trying to be reasonable with you.  If your intentions were not good, I would not have joined the Commonwealth to help.
Lyris Nairn > But.
Joe Phoenix > they asked for my protection.. i promised my protection... i wasn't going to let this happen
Lyris Nairn > Now pay attention to this, Joe.
Lyris Nairn > Joe, this isn't a game like most other games.  In most other games, the type of behavior you're saying other people have done to you would not be tolerated.  In most other games, your response would be justified.  In most other games.
Lyris Nairn > This is not those games, Joe.  In EVE, people can and will do mean things just for the hell of it.
Lyris Nairn > In EVE, people can and will keep a perpetual wardec going on you just because they dislike you.
Lyris Nairn > In EVE, people can and will suicide gank you in high-sec if you try to hide from them.
Lyris Nairn > In short, in EVE there are consequences for your behavior - and what's good or bad for you is not good or bad to someone else seeing it.
Lyris Nairn > Talking with you, I can understand why you reacted how you did; but, the people you reacted to do not see it that way.  All they see is a loudmouth and an easy target, and you will not convince them otherwise.
Lyris Nairn > So you have options.
Joe Phoenix > lyris i am buddist.... i believe in what your saying
Lyris Nairn > You can either react how you have, and you will get wardecs out the ass; or, you can let things slide, and not get wardecs.
Lyris Nairn > Now, for me, personally, I hope you keep running your mouth 'cos that'll give me lots of guys to shoot.
Lyris Nairn > But that will be very bad for the new people you recruit.  'Cos they will die, horribly.
Joe Phoenix > lyris please stop using that term
Joe Phoenix > make me sound like a drunk chav
Lyris Nairn > That's how others perceive you, Joe.
Zedrik Cayne > Joe: You certainly seem to be on *something*
Lyris Nairn > I know you're a nice person.
Zedrik Cayne > You don't quite 'get' EvE.
Lyris Nairn > I know you're trying to do good.
Lyris Nairn > But these other people don't understand
Lyris Nairn > And they don't want to understand.
Lyris Nairn > All they want is to cause you trouble.
Lyris Nairn > And they will continue to do so, as long as you make noise.
Lyris Nairn > If you want them to go away, lay low.
Lyris Nairn > Don't post on the forums.  Don't respond to people in local.
Lyris Nairn > And things will smooth over.
Joe Phoenix > but why must it be like this?
Zedrik Cayne > Because this is EvE.
Lyris Nairn > Because this is the game you chose to play.
Joe Phoenix > it takes one to go againest the tide
Lyris Nairn > This is how EVE is, man.
Lyris Nairn > No, Joe.
Lyris Nairn > One man can't change it.
Lyris Nairn > One corp can't change it.
Lyris Nairn > One thousand-man alliance can't change it.
Lyris Nairn > EVE University has tried
Lyris Nairn > so has Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Lyris Nairn > So have hundreds of individual corporations.
Joe Phoenix > wouldn't you both like to see a more desent verse?
Lyris Nairn > No!
Zedrik Cayne > This is the meanest, nastiest, most horrible game in terms of inter-personal relations that exists.
Lyris Nairn > This is the one game where you can actually be an asshole.
Lyris Nairn > Which is why I play it.
Lyris Nairn > If I did half the stuff I've done in EVE, in a traditional MMO, I'd be banned.
Zedrik Cayne > Opening yourself up to trust, will lead to pain.
Zedrik Cayne > Everything you do in here is risky.
Lyris Nairn > In EVE, there are consequences and risks for every possible action.
Joe Phoenix > being an asshole can go to 0.0
Lyris Nairn > For example, you told me you were in Amarr; right now, I am outside your station in my ship.
Lyris Nairn > If I want to, I can kill you when you undock.
Lyris Nairn > That's a possible consequence for trusting me with that little bit of info.
Lyris Nairn > Do you not see what we're saying?
Joe Phoenix > i did think of that
Lyris Nairn > And the other day, I could've killed your drake when we were in fleet; or, you could have killed me; or, you could've killed Syra
Lyris Nairn > Always think of the consequences, mate.
Zedrik Cayne > Last night, I had Lyris by the balls in a mission ship. I ransomed her for 100 mil isk.
Zedrik Cayne > And let her go. I could have let the mission kill her.
Zedrik Cayne > Even after getting paid.
Joe Phoenix > indeed
Zedrik Cayne > We all make choices, these things effect the people around us.
Zedrik Cayne > You are making *horrible* choices with respect to your relations and reactions with other people.
Zedrik Cayne > And all this effects the people you are leading in a negative fashion.
Lyris Nairn > Now understand, Joe
Lyris Nairn > I have respect for Zedrik.  I know he is honest.
Lyris Nairn > Do you know why?
Lyris Nairn > 1.  When we had a 1v1, he honored the 1v1.  He could have brought friends, or he could have ran away.  He didn't.  He showed his honesty.
Joe Phoenix > i don't believe i do.
Lyris Nairn > 2.  When he caught me running missions, and he ransomed me, he honored the ransom.  He let me go.  He showed his honesty.
Lyris Nairn > YOu don't think he's honest, because you have a childish "US versus THEM" mentality, wherein you believe everyone who doesn't agree with you or like you is a bad person.
Joe Phoenix > wow
Lyris Nairn > I trust Zedrik.  He could've fucked me over twice.
Lyris Nairn > He didn't.
Joe Phoenix > hang on a second
Lyris Nairn > You have no reason to distrust him, but you do.
Lyris Nairn > And yet you blindly trusted me.
Zedrik Cayne > I've been nothing but honest with you Joe, from the start.
Joe Phoenix > 2 seconds
Lyris Nairn > You blindly trusted me because I told you, "I will join your corp."
Lyris Nairn > You blindly distrust Zedrik Cayne because he told you, "I will wardec your corp."
Joe Phoenix > i ddo not "dislike" zedrik
Lyris Nairn > oh?
Lyris Nairn > Need I pull quotes from corp chat?
Lyris Nairn > Where you call him a liar, a backstabber, a scum, etc.?
Joe Phoenix > prop
Joe Phoenix > no
Joe Phoenix > i called trok thouse things
Joe Phoenix > and lets be honest, he is
Lyris Nairn > No, Joe.
Joe Phoenix > yes lyris
Lyris Nairn > He believes, as I do, that JOE PHOENIX is the reason Imperial Commonwealth is getting wardecs.  He wants the members of the commonwealth to be safe, and he knows that they won't be so long as they are in a corp with you.
Lyris Nairn > Zedrik, real life hypothetical.
Joe Phoenix > they didn't join this corp t be "safe"
Lyris Nairn > If you got a credible threat that your daughter's life would be in danger unless you sent her to her aunt's or a neighbor's for the weekend, would you keep her at home or send her away?
Joe Phoenix > they joined it to make a difference
Lyris Nairn > Most rational people would send the child away from danger.
Lyris Nairn > That's what Trok did.
Zedrik Cayne > My daughter gets sent to my aunt's :)
Joe Phoenix > trok is not there parent
Zedrik Cayne > No, but you should be.
Joe Phoenix > he had no right to make that choice
Lyris Nairn > You should have identified the threat and made the choice yourself, Joe.
Joe Phoenix > and 95% of the members are re-applying right now
Lyris Nairn > Now look.  I am bored sitting here in space doing nothing.
Lyris Nairn > And 95% is an untrue statement
Joe Phoenix > 19 out of 20
Lyris Nairn > 95% requires 19 out of 20; there are not 20 people who wre kicked.
Lyris Nairn > Stop making shit up.
Lyris Nairn > Are you goign to undock and us hunt for WTs, or am I going to go do missions?
Joe Phoenix > im not "making shit"
Zedrik Cayne > Joe, you're pulling numbers out of thin air.
Joe Phoenix > i gtg in a sec, its 3 o'clock here
Joe Phoenix > no zedrik
Joe Phoenix > remmeber befor these wars i had about 34 members?
Joe Phoenix > yes?
Joe Phoenix > well 19 are re-applying soon
Zedrik Cayne > No. When I started, it was about 29 folks.
Joe Phoenix > out of roughly 20 who left
Joe Phoenix > 9 folk now
Joe Phoenix > -20
Zedrik Cayne > Before Trok applied his boot.
Zedrik Cayne > It was down to 20
Zedrik Cayne > It's now 9.
Joe Phoenix > 29 - 20 = 9
Zedrik Cayne > Okay...so you're saying that tomorrow at this time, you'll be at 28 people?
Joe Phoenix > no, im not accepting the aps yet
Zedrik Cayne > No new folks? Just original members?
Zedrik Cayne > You know, that's the first smart thing I think you've done this entire adventure.
Zedrik Cayne > At any rate Joe. I know that your 'loan' scheme was a complete fabrication.
Joe Phoenix > the loan was not
Joe Phoenix > 100% honest
Joe Phoenix > we required bpo blueprints
Joe Phoenix > troks idea
Zedrik Cayne > Your collateral was non-existant, and you were going to hire a merc with the isk.
Joe Phoenix > actuelly i was going to hire merc's using a plex
Zedrik Cayne > Even without Trok's admission and knowledge in this area...it was painfully obvious.
Zedrik Cayne > Oh, and speaking of lying...the Skool has still not gotten a dec.
Joe Phoenix > im not planning any war dec on them
Joe Phoenix > wouldn't be worth it
Zedrik Cayne > You told me you were.
Joe Phoenix > befor i had more important matters to attend to
Zedrik Cayne > Then you explicitly said you were going to arrange it in order to avoid my dec.
Joe Phoenix > personal revenge can wait
Zedrik Cayne > Joe...do you think  I am stupid?
Joe Phoenix > zedrik you didn't stop them
Joe Phoenix > thus
Joe Phoenix > the war dec was pointless
Lyris Nairn > Joe
Joe Phoenix > lyris
Zedrik Cayne > If you'd have dec'd the skool...I would not have dec'd you. 100% the truth.
Lyris Nairn > the entire reason Zedrik wardec IC is because you said you were going to warde the Skool, and then didn't
Lyris Nairn > He likes to call out liars
Joe Phoenix > zedrik i couldn't believe that!
Joe Phoenix > what did i have to prove you would?
Zedrik Cayne > /emote has a history of doing such things.
Zedrik Cayne > I even mentioned that you should look through the links in my bio.
Zedrik Cayne > Make for interesting reads.
Joe Phoenix > i did read them
Zedrik Cayne > And the majority of them, is me calling people's bluffs.
Joe Phoenix > but still, i had no gaurentee you weren't going to just give me another war
Lyris Nairn > Joe
Lyris Nairn > His proof is his reputation
Lyris Nairn > Zedrik is a respected member of the EVE community
Lyris Nairn > So far, he hasn't lied to anyone and he's has thousands of opportunities to do so
Joe Phoenix > unfortunatly his reputation didn't presead him
Lyris Nairn > Me, on the other hand, I've lied to a lot of people
Lyris Nairn > That's because you didn't do research, Joe
Lyris Nairn > If you'd done research on me, for example....
Joe Phoenix > including me, i might add
Lyris Nairn > If you'd even checked my employment history, you'd know I am a pirate and a privateer.
Joe Phoenix > actuelly iv got trok to thank for your acceptance
Lyris Nairn > I go where the pewpew and the loot is.
Lyris Nairn > And right now, there's lots of wars against your corp, and will be for the forseeable future.
Joe Phoenix > well thats up to aedrik
Joe Phoenix > zedrik*
Lyris Nairn > No, it's not
Lyris Nairn > There are at least 10 corps in line to wardec your corp
Zedrik Cayne > My wardec is under my control.
Zedrik Cayne > Nobody else's. I'm sure that once you step down as ceo. And once you lay low for a couple weeks.
Joe Phoenix > lyris there is no "line"
Lyris Nairn > Yes, there is, Joe
Joe Phoenix > theres no max to decs againest u
Lyris Nairn > No, but the cost goes up
Zedrik Cayne > Joe..they are waiting until the number of decs goes down
Zedrik Cayne > So its cheaper.
Lyris Nairn > People don't want to pay 8m or 16m per week to fuck with you
Lyris Nairn > they want to pay 2m or 4m
Lyris Nairn > So they talk among themselves,d raw straws, and get in line
Joe Phoenix > unfortunatly for them, its about to go up, alot
Lyris Nairn > Please tell me you're putting this corp in an alliance!
Zedrik Cayne > Oh, please say you are putting the corp into an alliance :)
Joe Phoenix > why would that interest you?
Zedrik Cayne > Because, it makes it much, much more epic.
Lyris Nairn > If you run to an alliance, you are going to make a lot of enemies
Joe Phoenix > not really...
Lyris Nairn > OK.  You think that.
Joe Phoenix > why would it be any different
Lyris Nairn > I've ascertained that it's useless to try to explain game mechanics to you, or to reason with you.  I will just keep silent now, and let you lead the corp the way you want.
Lyris Nairn > I'll be here to fight on your behalf, and I'll execute the duties you assign to me, but I'm done trying to help you understand things.
Joe Phoenix > lyris why would a one corp alliance pick up anymore flak?
Joe Phoenix > its illogical
Lyris Nairn > You don't want to know, Joe.
Lyris Nairn > If I told you, you wouldn't believe me.
Joe Phoenix > yes i do
Lyris Nairn > And you wouldn't do anything about it.
Lyris Nairn > So, as I said, I'm done.
Joe Phoenix > im extreamly interested
Zedrik Cayne > Joe...let me get this straight.
Zedrik Cayne > You are going to train sov, in order to create an alliance.
Zedrik Cayne > Or, are you going to buy the services of someone to do it for you?
Zedrik Cayne > Plus...the billion isk.
Zedrik Cayne > Plus the monthly bill.
Joe Phoenix > of 2mill
Joe Phoenix > pritty sure i can handle that
Zedrik Cayne > You continue to amaze me Joe. How anyone can have a head so thick. You still have no real plan on how to generate corporate income.
Joe Phoenix > and il have you know that, although that is the plan, i have been offered a place in an alliance
Joe Phoenix > zedrik why presume somthing like that?
Joe Phoenix > how could i have been able to produce this kind of defense without a good corp income.
Zedrik Cayne > Because if you had some sort of plan or direction, you would have let some of your trusted lieutenants know. Instead of leaving them hanging to go mission or whatnot.
Zedrik Cayne > Um..what kind of defense?
Joe Phoenix > lyris is not a lieutenant, and she is not trusted
Zedrik Cayne > So, you were planning on all shadow like, collecting isk, playing the market, until your plan snapped into place? Doing it all on your own, and probably getting your ass shot off while doing it?
Joe Phoenix > ofcourse not, although i am skilled in the stock market
Zedrik Cayne > If you were truly skilled in the market, you would not have needed to ask for a loan.
Zedrik Cayne > Logic not following here Joe.
Joe Phoenix > need to spend money to make money
Joe Phoenix > cant spend it if you havent got it
Zedrik Cayne > You had 170 mil.
Zedrik Cayne > Any decent trader with that much in his wallet will have almost a billion isk at the end of two weeks.
Joe Phoenix > well then im obveasly a crappy trader
Zedrik Cayne > *ding*
Zedrik Cayne > At any rate Joe. You have some skills..you seem to have a gift for recruiting decent folks.
Zedrik Cayne > So I'd suggest, using that to your advantage..and stop trying to run a corporation.
Joe Phoenix > basicly your saying you wont have anything else
Zedrik Cayne > But as for right now. You are quite possibly one of the worst CEO's I have ever had the displeasure of coming across.
Joe Phoenix > maybe im just different
Zedrik Cayne > You're different all right, but the way you are running things, you will keep running afoul of corporations.
Joe Phoenix > but hey, im still here arnt i
Zedrik Cayne > Joe: There's no game mechanic to force you out.
Joe Phoenix > my corps still here
Zedrik Cayne > If there was, it would have been used already with great prejudice.
Zedrik Cayne > Again..there's no way to externally disband a corporation.
Zedrik Cayne > And if there was, it would have already been applied.
Joe Phoenix > your very certain everyone agrees with you
Joe Phoenix > arnt you..
Zedrik Cayne > Oh, not everyone agrees with me.
Zedrik Cayne > That would be foolhardy.
Zedrik Cayne > But, then again, not enough folks disagree with me to cause me any real problem.
Joe Phoenix > then maybe your predictions are incorrect
Joe Phoenix > anyway
Zedrik Cayne > True, I am not infallable. But, let's just take a quick look at your own record?
Zedrik Cayne > You have not 'won' any war against you, using any metric that I know of.
Zedrik Cayne > Just having your corp survive is not 'winning'
Joe Phoenix > its not losing either
Zedrik Cayne > Not 'personally' but, the people that you lead are bleeding horribly.
Zedrik Cayne > And you are not reimbursing them at all, are you?
Joe Phoenix > iv lost more then anyone else
Joe Phoenix > out of my own pocket
Joe Phoenix > every single time
Joe Phoenix > without fail
Zedrik Cayne > Oh, and all the bull pucky about the ten year olds and the insults?
Zedrik Cayne > If it were truly like that...you petition it.
Joe Phoenix > bull pucky?
Joe Phoenix > i did
Joe Phoenix > "allowed in the game" aparently
Zedrik Cayne > Exactly.
Joe Phoenix > doesn't mean i have to allow it
Zedrik Cayne > Um, yes, yes it does.
Zedrik Cayne > Because you have no way under your power to stop it.
Zedrik Cayne > Just the same way I can't disband your corporation for you. Even though it desperately needs it.
Joe Phoenix > doesn't stop the americans lol
Zedrik Cayne > Okay, that was random.
Joe Phoenix > not really
Joe Phoenix > claim authority when they have none
Joe Phoenix > so hows this going to end.. you continue to hunt me forever?
Joe Phoenix > and i fight back... forever
Zedrik Cayne > Usually, the ceo of the target corporation sees that effectively its just bad business to be in a war.
Zedrik Cayne > And they do what it takes to not be at war any more.
Joe Phoenix > the ocmmonwealth is not a business
Zedrik Cayne > Yes, yes it is.
Zedrik Cayne > You plan on making profits with it?
Zedrik Cayne > You want to do grand things, requires isk.
Joe Phoenix > no
Zedrik Cayne > Okay..I've got to hear this..how is it not a business?
Joe Phoenix > we dont desire matiriel gains
Joe Phoenix > we strive for somthing more important
Zedrik Cayne > Which is?
Joe Phoenix > aquasition of the perpuse to the form of the good
Joe Phoenix > "quote" plato
Zedrik Cayne > Okay, can we have that in plain english, american or the queen's english.
Joe Phoenix > the good form... its a difficult consept to explain
Zedrik Cayne > It shouldn't be...you're basing your entire corporation around it.
Joe Phoenix > basicly its trying to form the perfect state of existance
Zedrik Cayne > How do you attract corpmates with such a vague, impenetrable mission statement?
Zedrik Cayne > Or, do you just not tell them about it, promise riches and camaraderie?
Joe Phoenix > in lamans terms, that is what we offer
Joe Phoenix > the perfect state
Zedrik Cayne > Okay, and currently what you offer is a corporation full of pain, suffering, and explosions.
Zedrik Cayne > And its all your doing.
Zedrik Cayne > Do you get that at all?
Joe Phoenix > plato failed twice to creat this state
Joe Phoenix > doesn't mean it cannot be done
Zedrik Cayne > Plato was also made to drink hemlock.
Joe Phoenix > because they authorites considered him a menise
Joe Phoenix > the*
Zedrik Cayne > Actually..that's socrates.
Joe Phoenix > on yes your right, aristocraties died in the acadamy
Joe Phoenix > aristocraties AKA plato#
Zedrik Cayne > At any rate....You are trying to create something, which is anathema to the world we have here.
Joe Phoenix > what would you have me creat, a dictatorship? a communist state.. a corrupt dimocracy? an aristocration society?
Zedrik Cayne > You create a corporation..
Joe Phoenix > better the reach for somthing better... then live in this
Zedrik Cayne > You start there.
Zedrik Cayne > ZBe the head of a coropration, be responsable for it and your members.
Joe Phoenix > alittle irrelivant at this time, dont you think
Zedrik Cayne > Nope...if you were actually feeling in any way, shape, or form, responsable for your employees..you might have actually listened to any of the advice that has been given to you.
Joe Phoenix > maybe they didn't want me to step down? think about that?
Zedrik Cayne > Joe...frankly they don't care.
Joe Phoenix > ofcourse they care
Zedrik Cayne > Most folks want to be left alone to hang out with their friends, do their thing, make isk, buy shiny things.
Joe Phoenix > youv had spies in the commonwealth
Joe Phoenix > you no what our society is like
Zedrik Cayne > Joe..you're delusional.
Joe Phoenix > i wish
Joe Phoenix > then i might have i nice image in my head
Zedrik Cayne > You have a pretty fluffy image in your head of what you'd like to get to.
Joe Phoenix > So knowing im not going to step down... and also knowing why i was angry with certain individuels over certain things... what now?
Zedrik Cayne > I've paid for another week of investigation time. Maybe seeing your new recruits dying will make you see reason.
Joe Phoenix > more death and destruction for no purpose?
Zedrik Cayne > There is a purpose on my end Joe.
Joe Phoenix > rating on the forum?
Zedrik Cayne > Actually....its making sure that you stop running a corporation.
Zedrik Cayne > I'll repeat myself in case you missed it.
Zedrik Cayne > My purpose is making sure that you stop running a corporation.
Joe Phoenix > and you should no that that is never going to happen
Joe Phoenix > and the more famous we become
Joe Phoenix > proving the point of our existance
Joe Phoenix > and when i join an alliance, nobody is going to mess with us for the sake of messing with us
Zedrik Cayne > Well then, good luck with that.
Joe Phoenix > you don't mean that.
Zedrik Cayne > I actually do.
Zedrik Cayne > I don't say things I don't mean. I do what I say I'm going to do.
Zedrik Cayne > I don't for a minute think you'll pull it off.
Zedrik Cayne > But, I will wish you luck trying.
Joe Phoenix > why woulld you possibly wish me good luck
Joe Phoenix > you want me to fail
Zedrik Cayne > No...what I'd really like for you to do is realize that you're running your corporation badly, and to either start running it properly, or turn the keys over to someone who can.
Joe Phoenix > running it properly?
Joe Phoenix > how would u have me do that
Zedrik Cayne > Since you seem to be incapable of realizing that the problems of the corporation are all your own doing. You haven't taken the advice on how you might fix it.
Joe Phoenix > by giving up
Joe Phoenix > surrendering
Joe Phoenix > i dont think so
Zedrik Cayne > Starting again after all the noise has gone away.
Zedrik Cayne > You said it yourself..Plato failed twice....you try again.
Joe Phoenix > noise will go away by itself
Zedrik Cayne > Okay Joe... how's that been working out for you up to this point?
Joe Phoenix > better if you removed your post
Zedrik Cayne > I understand that.
Joe Phoenix > if you truely want me to suceed, you would allow me the light i need to grow... in a maner of speaking
Zedrik Cayne > Joe...I wished you luck. I don't want you to succeed. But, good luck with trying it your way.
Joe Phoenix > so no chance of you stopping insighting war againest us?
Zedrik Cayne > You step down. I stop. Or I get tired of this investigation.
Joe Phoenix > ok, well i gtg, have a good one